Help in determining type of Jowett

[AlanBartlett]

Two jowetts in one garage, quite a find. Does the engine plate on the first jowett look anything like this?
(Blurry pic haven't got the best of cameras)
Some earlier engines had stamps on the top shoulder of the crankcase, with the engine number stamped into the aluminum.

Also the chassis plate would have been located i think on the toeboard inside the engine bay if its there around the drivers side I think, some one should be able to know what it looks like, I'm not sure on this but might possiblely look like this.


Another thing which may help is the shape of the chassis, as to whether it is of ladder type frame contstruction up to 1934 or the cross braced introduced 1935

[countrydiyer]

Hi Alan,

Your first pic is exactly what is on my first Jowett and as you say is on top of the engine.I noticed on your plate it also says "AT".

As for the second im not exactly sure where a toe board would be but i shall have another look tomorrow.The frames themselves i think are of the ladder type although again will take a clearer pic tomorrow.

Is it possible to telljust by the engine number the car it was fitted in?? Ie myengine number being 643595 on the forst Jowett?

[AlanBartlett]

AT I think reperesents after top dead center( TDC) which is regards to timing the engine and where it fires along the igniton timing. Also other information on the plate, it also should state the tappet clearance when cold. On your engine number is it possible your dad if he was the owner of the cars was a member of the car club, were they perhaps together back in the day, the club may have an old member ship listing for him and the jowetts he had owned. Or maybe I know there are listings around for each type of car, all depends if anyone has a listing which refers back to then.

[ian Howell]

Greetings!

May I offer the following?

'AT' means just that - At TDC, with the ignition fully retarded. I think this car is a 1936 model (first digit in the engine number is a '6').

The chassis number plate is as Alan illustrates, and on my 1930 car is on the engine bulkhead, on the driver's side, roughly above the steering column. I believe the metal bodied cars may be different however.

Also, in a post some time ago, Tony Fearn gave details of the men who set up the engines after assembly. Each one stamped their initials on the engine crankcase next to the engine number, by the oil filler cap.

Someone will be pleased to cross-refer you to the relevant post.

Good luck with the cars and happy Jowetteering!

[george garside]

more likely to be '32 than '33 as the '33 had starter button on instrument panel. Certainly a later engine (from the numbr a '36) as the timing case does not have the fixed starting handle attached. As far as I am aware the '32 model year was the last in which a fabric saloon was available so this ties in with your 'cloth body'
george

[k. rogers]

Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons, after revisiting the photos I notice the later type front wing support (which strangely seems to be right in the way of the near-side rad hose) and also a later propshaft coupling! Curiouser and curiouser.

[Peter Holden]

Fabric finished cars are listed in the 1933 catalogue included the standard saloon in maroon fabric and named ‘Wren’
The de-lux saloon were black or blue cellulose and named ‘Blackbird’ or ‘Kingfisher’

The 1933 catalogue shows:

Short Saloon (Fabric)
Finish: Black fabric with green line
Interior: Brown rexine or fawn moquette

Short Saloon (Coachbuilt) also available in 1934
Finish: Dark Blue cellulose
Maroon cellulose
Interior: Blue moquette or rexine
Maroon moquette or rexine

Long Saloon
Finish: Dark Blue cellulose with light Blue line
Maroon cellulose with Red line
Interior: Blue moquette or rexine
Maroon moquette or rexine

Fabric Only: Black exterior, green line
Interior: Fawn moquette or Brown rexine



Just other point.
The first photo of the engine bay with as Ken says is the latter type front wing support shows a cross braced chassis. So it may well be 1936 with a different rad.

[Tony Fearn]

Hello Mark.

Welcome to JowettTalk and to one of the most friendly, (and the oldest) one make car clubs in the world.

I've been on holiday recently but was fascinated on my return to read of your 'barn finds'. I note that you now have two chassis and from what's been said, perhaps some parts from the two cars have been used to make one usable vehicle sometime in the past.

Perhaps the best way forward if you are really interested in these Jowetts is to dig them out, find all the bits lying around under all the other paraphenalia which you say is partially obliterating them, then have a proper look at what you've got. Then photograph them both in the light of day.

The photos you’ve posted show a cross-braced chassis, with an engine having the brass plate riveted to the top of the timing case which you say has the number 643595 stamped on it. It also seems to have a 30VEFH Zenith carburettor on the manifold and as other members have said this is probably a 1936 model. The oddities are that the instrument panel doesn’t seem to have a starter button in the centre of the three smaller gauges and the ignition switch, and the radiator cowl is from an earlier pre-war model as George has identified. I don’t think that the 3-speed gear box had a free-wheel system on it. The 1936 car would have had a four speed box.

If the second chassis has an original engine in it, and it is the earlier chassis without the cross-bracing, the number should be stamped on top of the timing case, in line with the dynamo, and will be 6 numbers long.

Twenty years in limbo has obviously led to rust problems, and perhaps the chassis themselves have partially rusted away. If so then the basis of restoration is compromised. If you want to restore one, you’ll have to join the Club, and then I think our Spares Department might be able to supply you with quite a number of the bits you’ll need, but body panels and especially wings are few and far between, if not impossible to come by. You’ll be surprised just how many items you’ll need to complete a vehicle.

Nevertheless, several re-builds of pre-war vehicles are currently being undertaken, and some of them started with similar ‘finds’ to your own, so it’s a possibility, but it will need commitment in spades over a considerable time period.

Just to whet your appetite I’ve attached a photo of one of my Jowetts, a 1933 Jowett ‘Flying Fox’ two-seater tourer with dickey seat, which I finished about three years ago after buying the chassis and engine only (no body or anything else) from a fellow Jowetteer almost 30 years ago.

Looking forward to more photos of the two vehicles,

With best wishes,

Tony.

[george garside]

on furthur examination & taking Tony's ;comments into consideration this looks like a classic 'Bitza' made up of presumably usable bits from more than one Jowett. Pointers to this are crossed braced chassis 1935/36 model years, 32/33 radiator,32 instrument paanel,3 speed gearbox (crossed brace chassis all with 4 speed,) Could possible have the free wheel fitted to the Curlew for 1935 -but not with 3 speed box. It also puts it firmly as a long Jowett. ( for some illogical reason I was assuming it to be a short one!) As to the 'cloth' body fabric was definately not used on cross braced chassis so the body could possibly be homegrown eg a woody shooting brake with fabric roof??

Perhaps if 'countrdyer 'reveals his location someone would be able & willing to visit him ;& assist with identification.

george

[countrydiyer]

Hi all,

Indeed, one is a 1936 and the other 1932 and i am based in Northern Ireland so not exactly a trip up the road for many of you

I checked the other frame and still could find no identifying marks on the engine or frame bbut im sure their there somewhere.Looks like due to these frames and parts being worth little i shall re cover them and hopefully in 20 yrs or so the value will have gone up a bit....if the dust fairies dont get their hands on them lol

[Jack]

Hi all,

Indeed, one is a 1936 and the other 1932 and i am based in Northern Ireland so not exactly a trip up the road for many of you

I checked the other frame and still could find no identifying marks on the engine or frame bbut im sure their there somewhere.Looks like due to these frames and parts being worth little i shall re cover them and hopefully in 20 yrs or so the value will have gone up a bit....if the dust fairies dont get their hands on them lol

They are your property to do with as you like, but I have to say that holding on to them for 20 years in the hope that they increase in value is probably a false economy. They will almost certainly deteriorate over time unless stored in a completely dry place, and even then deterioration can happen to parts like this.

The parts are very rare already, so if your hope is that as they become more rare in time they will go up in value, this is unlikely - the value of a complete car would have to increase dramatically in order for that to happen, and despite increases in the classic car market in recent years, they're never going to be worth millions.

I'd suggest the cost of storage (even in the amount of clutter they create) probably isn't worth it for the long term. You'd be better off selling the parts as they stand to someone who can either restore the cars or get another car on the road using the parts. The dust fairies (and rust fairy) will get in, somehow they always do. And then you'd be left with a pile of scrap you've been storing for 40 years, which is worth no more now than it was 40 years ago, and if they deteriorate significantly less.

Jack.

[ian Howell]

Mark: -

I have only just discovered the first pages of your post and these reveal a couple of points of interest :

First, the chassis number or at least the last three digits, are/were stamped into the lower edge of the bonnet side panels towards the back. They may be difficult to see if the panels are badly rusted, but worth a good look.

Second - and much more important, to me anyway! - you mention a freewheel device.

My 1930 Long Four has got just such a device - it looks a bit like an overdrive attached to the back end of the gearbox - and I was assured by Ian Priestley, a well know Pre-war Jowett expert, that he was unaware of any other examples in existance.

I wonder if yours has any trace of the operating mechanism? This could be a Bowden cable (like a bicycle brake or a choke) or a simple lever mounted on the floor near the gear lever. A photo of yours would be very much appreciated.

Mine is fitted to a 3 speed 'box, so I don't know where that might lead us.

My Long Four was in a bit of a pickle when I bought it in the 1960's and so far I have spent a lot of spare time over 7 years getting it back together. Be warned!

[george garside]

Like Ian I have never come accross a freewheel on a 1930 model. I presume you have the centre change 3 speed box as fitted from 29 to '32 rather than the right hand change box used up to the 1928 model year. Some of the latter were fitted were fitted with the humfrey sandberg free wheel & it is possible that this could have been fitted to the '29 - '32 box. the Scotland yard cars were fitted with this device but it may have been availble as an option.. The humfrey sandberg frewhheel , made fom about 1928 to 1930 was completely different from the freewheel fitted to the '35 curlew which used a coil spring rather than rollers & ramps to transmit the drive. Could it be possible taht one of these was retro fitted to your 3 speed box?

george

[PJGD]

For what it is worth, The Humfrey-Sandberg Company was quite active in the late Twenties in the area of clutches and transmissions. Several of their patents appear here:

http://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchRe ... alse&PN=GB

I don't know which patents relate to the mechanism that Jowett used.

Philip