Jowett Colours

[robert lintott]

Can't resist a reply re Valspar . I once ( I think in 1959) bought a 1930 Singer Junior saloon in sound runable condition from a work colleague , for £5.00 ! Having stood outside for many years the paint was below par so we painted it red with black wings using Valspar . It was very successfull and widely admired from a distance . I later sold it for £12.10 old money .

Early Jowetts were probably brush painted at the Factory and even today the technique is used by restorers of horse drawn carriages I believe .Bob

[Keith Clements]

My Jup was painted with house gloss paint when I bought it!

[TimKelly]

Thanks everyone for bringing together historic mixing formulas and more cross references. This is a great starting point and I will compile the information into an updated Jowett Paint Colours document.

Where paint samples have been re-created/matched closely to different available paint codes using a spectrometer it would be great to be documenting these.

On some cars, there is not always a large enough or good enough original sample and I don't have samples for all colours so a mix of approaches might be needed.

Can anyone advise how well the spectrometer deals with the metallic colours?

[TimKelly]

I have taken input to date and created a new PDF file called Jowett Mixing Formulas.
This lists out the original tinter proportions with the tinter names and provides a bit more insight into what went into each colour. Some of the mixes are complex and interesting. I entered these starting as grams per Litre but am also aware that they might have been intended for a float based system which may cause some variation. I am trying to get an image of some old ICO Belco 300 Series paint mixing cards so I can see exactly how the formulas were displayed.

I have provided a place for equivalent mixing formulas (with respective paint systems) to be added, but at this stage most of these are blank.
Sorry it is all PDF at the moment but I can email an XL version to anyone if needed for confirmations, corrections or additions.

I will also update the opening Post and attach the file at the top of this discussion as well to make it easier for anyone to find the most recent version.

Tim Kelly
tjnmkell@bigpond.net.au

[Chris Spencer]

Tim - Spectrometers will handle metallic colours just as well as any solid colour and are now commonplace in all major bodyshops for colour matching - It may take me a few months but I should be able to arrange the spectrometer and hence produce the formula for the missing colours - of course the other important factor is that we will need a car / panel with the original colour on it on which to take the spectrometer readings from but this is all achievable

The listing that you have drafted up is brilliant and ensures that we can undertake any future paintwork with the confidence that we are using the right colour instead of the usual case of picking nearest modern car equivalent that the mixing formula is readily available for.

However paint fades and bleaches with time / paint manufactures have changed the tinters over time for deeper metallics / stronger hues / depth of colour and not forgetting that if they can finder cheaper alternatives to the raw materials & chemicals - they will - along with this is the fact that when they originally created the formula it would have been for coach enamel paint - through the 1950's & 1960's all the manufactures changed there refinishing systems to cellulose paint some slight variations going into the 1970's brought use of base coat & lacquer system (cellulose colour base coat with an acrylic lacquer top coat) - largely for metallic colours - the 1980's brought a two pack synthetic system a catalyst hardener was added to the paint to speed up the drying times - paint technology has continued to progress and now sees a water based system being utilised for the colour coats with a two pack lacquer applied over to form the top coats - All of these equal a 'Lost in Translation' problem when it comes to colour matching for single panels to an existing colour that is on the car.

Its not the first time that I have ended up painting all the way down side of car just to blend the colour match in for one door - the spectrometer takes all the hard work out of this - again give me a couple months and I will be back advising on how I can help

Regards Chris

[TimKelly]

Thanks Chris, this all sounds promising towards a complete set of options.

If you don't have good panel sections for all of the missing colours I might be able to cover these as my paint supplier has been pestering me to try his spectrometer. I was resisting because of the cost and until I was assured that there was a need and way of re-recording the results.

I have good original samples of :
* Ivory
*Jupiter Green that I call British Racing Green - Light.
* Maroon
* Tampico Beige
* Sage Green
* Athena Grey metallic
* What I call Apple green/ Javelin light green/Avocado (I don't know the exact name and my understanding was that this colour was not common in the UK)
* Light metallic Green (from our CKD Javelin, again, I don't know the exact name of this one)


I don't have any samples/good samples of:
*Jupiter Copper as my Jupiter was fully grit blasted before I bought the car
*Italian Red
*Silver Grey (never seen one)
*Turquoise Blue (My understanding is that very few if any turquoise blue Javelins came to Australia)
*Rich Maroon Metallic (never seen one)
*Bottle Green Metallic (never seen an original paint area)
* Golden Sand (Unsure what this colour is and how it compares with Ivory)

I appreciate also the significant changes in paint systems over the years since I worked in a paint shop back in the mid eighties. As a hobbyist, I don't have a super spray booth and positive pressure air apparatus so I have been steering clear of anything with isocyanates, hence staying with acrylic lacquer to date. (I may need to invest in better equipment).

So there is no hurry, but your offer to help sort out the missing formulas in a couple of months is greatly appreciated.

Do you or anyone else know the true name of the colour for Bubble Bubble? the Apple green/Avocado/light green Javelin

Bubble Bubble

Tim K

[Moises Jr.]

Hello, I have looked at the topic of conversation and we could get the colors with photoshop, for CMYK colors (cyan magenta yellow and black) ready to print on paper.

Base colors, or the final color would be needed. It is possible that a photo can get a rough sample.

Could be interesting, make a sample of official printed colors jowett, similar to the attached image.

I'll read more carefully conversation.

Saludos!

[Keith Clements]

Tim ,
You can attach any file (including xls) to a post or put into Gallery.

[Moises Jr.]

Hi all!

I made a base graphic file for jowett colors. When they are identified will be shown all more beautiful.

Any correction?

Saludos!

[Nick Webster]

Sorry, but I am not sure that the graphic approach is the way to go. The colours in the chart above are not correct at all, certainly on my screen. In fact, colour "swatches" rarely give a 100% accurate representation. Given the difficulties with monitor screen and printer resolution I cannot see this as much of a help - more a guideline. Probably a good photo reference library of cars in different colours would be as useful, Particularly as sometimes a colour seems a good choice, but as a personal opinion, does not suit the car at all. (Diplomatically, I will avoid stating the colours that I hate on Javelins at this point)

I think the only successful way of a consistent colour will be (as appears to be in hand) with the mixing formulas identified scientifically from an actual old paint sample.

Finally, while I have my head around most colours, will someone clarify - is the green seen on NXR 292 so called Bottle Green?

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4077/4869 ... 5325_b.jpg

Nick

[Jack]

Finally, while I have my head around most colours, will someone clarify - is the green seen on NXR 292 so called Bottle Green?

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4077/4869 ... 5325_b.jpg

Nick

Hi Nick,

No, this car was repainted in the 1960s and I believe this is a Ford colour. Nigel should be able to confirm exactly which one, but this is not a Jowett colour. On the car there is, in a couple of hidden places, some of the original paint left though, and think it was a fairly bright greenish colour.

Jack.

[Forumadmin]

Getting colours correct on printers and screens is difficult and expensive.

Try this for size!

But that should not stop us producing an Adobe Photoshop file (picture) that will print correctly on a properly set up screen or printer. After all that is what such expensive software does!
Since Moises is a graphic artist, he is the man.

Nick,
the example Moises posted was not the finished article , just a template.

[Nick Webster]

Two replies with one post here:

Jack, Thanks for your comment. Although it is repainted, it is very similar to an original colour I have on a couple of spare panels. So my question then is subtly changed but remains: Is this like the Jowett colour called bottle green?

Forumadmin, Will the graphics be able to handle representation of metallic colours?

Nick

[Forumadmin]

Metallic colours can probably be simulated with Photoshop but, if Moises cannot answer, then some research will be needed. Put it this way, if someone takes a photo on a good camera then Photoshop can sample a paint area, then the display or print can be compared to the original. Photoshop can also act like a spectrometer giving you the mix of pigments in the colour or converesly mix the colour based on the mix. However, colour is complex so a lot of skill is needed.

Metallic (in particular) reflects the colours of its surroundings and, as any artist knows, the surrounding light affects colours. My paint shop has special lamps which are supposed to have the correct 'temperature' to resemble daylight. The walls, ceiling and floor are also painted white.

When taking a photo with a digital camera make sure the image is saved in RAW format and not processed by compression software. Those still using film will know how the colour reproduction on films was dependent on the brand and how long the negative and print were stored.

[TimKelly]

Tim ,
You can attach any file (including xls) to a post or put into Gallery.

Thanks Keith. Obviously I was not paying attention

To all, I could replace the PDFs with an XLS version and anyone could edit and re-post a copy. Before doing this, I am just wondering whether it might be a good idea to think about version control of a document containing the original formulas and suggested alternatives as these develop. I set out to achieve an opportunity for consistency for those choosing the original colours and from the original colour range, and for this, it would be better to maintain a single document.

Should we keep to one version and if so who would maintain this as new information comes in?

Kind regards
Tim K