Do these all get painted individually, then reassembled again?
Yes & yes - so with the panels bolted to the van I can make any final adjustments / allowances to ensure that the piping bead will look correct when inserted between the panel flange joints - It's also a lot easier to profile the wings with them fastened to the van - once all the profiles on the loose panels are correct - everything gets unfastened / removed and primed / painted individually prior to final assembly - it sounds a faff and it is but it's the only way to do it properly
Do you find the colour black take more preparation than other colours regardless of it the being gloss, satin or matt finish?
Any dark colour will show the smallest imperfection / ripple / dent - the higher the gloss the more it will highlight - satins will still show defects in dark colours - matt finish less so but it will still show defects - white & very, very light colours tend to hide minor defects but it depends on where they are - horizontal surfaces tend show up more than a vertical surface with white - same old story really - black absorbs light whilst white reflects light - In my book it makes no difference preparation wise - I want every vehicle that passes through the workshop to look right when it leaves the workshop completed.
I take it that's one that I am currently using that turns from a blue colour when wet - to black when dry ? - is this:What's the rust prevention stuff you recommend again?
Wasn't that rad cowl a pretty involved piece of bodywork for a humble workhouse. I like it.
It's a little more expensive than some of the other rust treatment products but the Bilt Hamber stuff is laboratory tested & proven - the rest of the markets offerings tend to just be a load of claims about how good there product is but with no proven record.
You are right - the rad cowl is a very involved with multiple compound profiles, raised beads & recessed flanges - but it's just like any panel on any vehicle if you don't put the effort in at this stage it will look a mess and show through even the best / shiniest of paintwork and being the front nose of the vehicle it's a panel that stands out or tends to be the first panel profile that people observe when viewing the van from the front - hence regardless of how humble the van is and the fact that the cowl is painted (when on most vehicles the cowls were chrome) it still needs to look right
So onwards with the profiling on the nearside front wing and with a few tips & hints along the way has I said would cover profiling compound curves
First - guide coating there are various 'Dry Guide Coats' available in the market - I don't use them - they are good but there is a lot cheaper alternative - tin of cheap aerosol matt black does the same job - just dust it over the filled area before sanding
There are quite a few different rubbing block profiles available - might help the novice but I very rarely use them - I tend to rely on my flat block more than anything - even on this wing
The guide coat used with hand / eye coordination is what I use - you need to keep running your hand over the area to give you a profile reading
If its a large area or a full panel break it down into smaller sections for sanding profiling
Work the block over the area in all directions - I tend to do opposing diagonal strokes then run over it left to right, top to bottom but there is no set pattern
Has you progress the profiles you will have to go over the radial edges and swept curvatures by hand - keep your hand flat and work the profile shape keeping a supple wrist but with a fair to firm pressure on the sanding - don't be tempted to rub with end of you fingers -you will just end up finger size troughs in the panel
Keep assessing the panel with your hand - top tips - always use the hand that you are not sanding with to assess the panel (sanding hand will desensitised through sanding movement) when you find a lump / bump / ripple in the profile but cannot pinpoint exactly where it is with your hand - look away from the panel or close your eyes - again access the panel with your hand and when you detect the defect place your finger to it - you can now look at the panel and your finger details the exact point which you can work if its too high or mark with pencil if it's low and requires further filling (it's very difficult to explain in text / images)
If your results have previously looked slightly deflated - it sounds to me like a combination of the worked / filled area not being large enough to cover the damaged area and insufficient depth of filler
A profile gauge may help with compound profiles if you are struggling - you can always check with the same panel on the opposite side of the car (providing that panel is undamaged)
Meanwhile I have started to prep the offside front wing with rust treatment
Jan 18, 2018 at 8:04pm
t I did not cover in my previous posting on compound panel profiling - so took some pics today of a flexible long block
Can be utilised on long swept compound curvatures but are very difficult to use / navigate on tighter radius areas such has the return edge to the wheelarch on this wing - I use a long flex block that accepts Velcro backed sanding pads / paper and that has vacuum extraction fitted to it - professional blocks like this are expensive (£80 +) but there are some budget ones in the market that you will find on E Bay etc
Other than that the profiles are advancing on the front panels & the nearside wing
Cleaned the back wings up and applied rust treatment to enable them to be temporary fitted to the body whilst the profiles are undertaken
Jan 19, 2018 at 9:08pm
More of the same old profile pounding I'm afraid
But the nearside front wing & both front panels are very close to completion - just a couple of minor areas in the morning then they can be skimmed with glaze prior to a final light sanding - at that stage the panels need to come back off the body and the flange edges tidied up / profiled then they need to go back on but this time with the wing piping which will require cutting to length and the bolt holes stamping through - then its a final panel fit check before primer & paint can commence
I have purposely left the offside front wing off has profiling the front panel is easier with the wing off rather than on
Meanwhile the rear wings were fastened up - minor reshaping as required with the hammer & dolly and are now ready for profiling
Jan 20, 2018 at 10:58am
What's the plan for the wheels?
They will stay factory original but will come off and have the tyres removed (new tyres & tubes already fitted to get the van mobile) - then a good shot blasting although the rims are fine to go again they are very heavily pitted and will require some detailed work prior to paint - The vans left the factory with black wheel rims - but with the wings / radiator cowl & roof all being black I think the rims would better in the body colour of maroon but it's up to the owner who I will consult prior to painting them (should be the last thing that I paint on the van) - the rims also have hub caps some were painted same has the rims but with this being a rare variant 'Utility' model it's having chrome hub caps which with exception of the 3 door handles and the wiper arms is just about the only chrome on the van.
Had another few hours on the van today
Front panel on the offside profile glaze applied / sanded back and all about there on the outer profiles
Now removed and the flange edges filled ready for profiling up tomorrow
Nearside front wing again put into glaze - sanded back & outer profiles completed - I will remove the wing in the morning and straighten the flange edges up which will also allow access for the nearside front panel to be skimmed with glaze & profiled
Rear wings were given an initial skimming of filler and guide coated - I will make a start on profiling them back tomorrow
Jan 21, 2018 at 10:26am
Hi been looking at your in-depth thread with great interest, I have just purchased a Jowett Bradford that is not fully finished and some of the work needs addressing. It has been in storage at my workshop 18months, but I never really took any notice of it as I was storing it for a friend, who now has given up on the prospect of Finnishing due to life changes
The veh has had a full new ash frame several years ago, I have known the previous owner for several years and, know most of the veh has been done to a professional standard but never finished.
I the chassis and engine were fully rebuilt and chassis looks like that still, the engine was also rebuilt to a high standard.
I am after help and advice on sourcing some parts ie gutter rails and side trims, and info on what the panels round door frames were like.
I hope you will be a world of knowledge and help thank you.
I'm back in the workshop today - I will take some pics of the glazes along with a few pics of the glaze in use and update the post / thread with an explanation of the benefitswhats the glaze that you use like, is it quite runny to get into all the light scratches or thicker like a filler, i have tried using a putty type fine filler in the past for fine scratches before paint and found it to be to soft so it just came out when sanding before primer. also i enjoy seeing the amount of work on just preping panels before the paint process as most of us just don't know quite how much prep goes into these top quality paint jobs, having smoothed and painted my old astra a few years back i couldnt understand why i could see scratch marks in the paint but i only did about half the prep stages you are doing on this van.
So You have more or less answered you own question the polyester glazes that are available in the refinishing market are semi liquid type filler - ideal for pin holes / light scratches / minor defects / minor panel or profile undulations - can be applied to bare metal or over painted surfaces providing they are prepared correctly - more than anything I use glazes has my final skimming coat to remove minor undulations / ripples etc - they are several manufactures in the market but these are the two that I use and that I can recommend
U POL Dolphin Glaze - Fairly fluid and self levelling - thin enough to wipe in / brush into areas that have awkward access - it's good stuff - even better if you can apply it whilst the panel is horizontal
3M Premium Glaze - Slightly denser than Dolphin - but still very easily spread into panel areas - semi self levelling (sometimes pays to warm the bottle up for a few mins in colder weather to make it a little more workable (just run it under a warm water tap or place it on a radiator for a few mins)
Just mix it with the hardener has you would normal filler
This is 3M Glaze ready to be mixed with the hardener
Here it is applied - it spreads / applies easily (nearly has easy has margarine on bread) therefore you can keep close to the profile - it's also very fine - but apply with care otherwise you will have it running or sagging off the panel if you apply it densely
Takes the same time has normal filler to cure - about 20 mins in conditions above 15 degrees c - guide coat applied (matt black aerosol)
I sand back with P80 normally can be sanded back with finer paper from here if needed
Result is a profiled panel with no undulation or deviation and ready for prepping for primer - this would take more effort to achieve with normal fillers however you need to be capable of attaining the correct panel profiles with polyester fillers before you start applying glazes
The nearside front panel has had polyester glaze applied to it and it sanded back - it now needs to be removed and the inner flange edge with the inner wing trued up along with the bottom return flange which I will do in the morning
Elsewhere - the nearside front wing has been removed and just awaits the flange edge being sanded back in the morning
Nearside rear door - the blanking off / making good of several rebates in the doors ash frame for the old door catches have now been completed & reprofiled
The door skins on all of the doors are just nailed onto the ash frames - inevitably this leaves a edge gap in places to harbour water between the frame & the door skin - plan here is apply a etch primer to the flange on the door skin and then apply a thin bead of automotive sealer between the frame & skin - not original but this goes on to preserve the van for many, many years
Made a start on profiling the rear wings
Removed the offside front panel and completed the flange edges then refitted it
Enabling the offside front wing to be fastened up which means the profiles on this can commence in the morning
Jan 22, 2018 at 9:27am
It's a pre war design and went into production just after the second world war - I don't think that there was too much choice about in those days has to what was available for sealing products - cloth braid was used in quite a few areas has a seal / packer but the problem being that this absorbed water and where it could not dry out it exaggerated the problem. Has you say they did not put too much thought into a vehicles lifespan either in those days.Surprised they didn't use some sort of putty or primitive sealant on that bottom edge. Perhaps they didn't expect the vans to last long enough in service to warrant the extra cost and time?
Removed the nearside front panel and trued the flange edges up
Cleaned any minor filler residue from the radiator cowl & inner wing panel
Templated the first wing piping bead
Then trimmed the bead to length and punched the bolt holes through - the wing & front panel can now have the final trail fitting in the morning
Offside front wing was dressed back with the DA - went over it for a final time with the hammer & dolly prior to applying the first polyester skimming coat
Then sanded back and the second one applied
Then guide coated so I can commence profiling again in the morning
Meanwhile I prepped several of the smaller panels, chassis end caps, trafficator aperture covers, brackets, front number plate panel, dashboard & some inspection panels
Then treated them all with the Bilt Hamber Hydrate 80 rust treatment
This feels tantalisingly close to the primer stage now that you're onto the really fiddly bits.
It's not far away now but I have seen a lot of restorations both professional & private lost at this point they get so close to the paint stage that they start to rush and forget things - it's fairly critical at this stage that loose panels are checked for fitting along with any trim that may effect the fitting of the panels, door looks & apertures are checked along with panel alignment and one of the main failings that I witness time after time is that any holes that require drilling for trim, fittings, catches, lamps, number plates etc are all done at this stage - if left until painted you then have to drill and risk marking / damaging the paint but more importantly the hole just drilled is unprotected by primer & paint and will just rust from that point - it's a laborious but critical process and makes the fitting up / finishing of the restoration so much easier whilst looking all the better for the effort that's been made in the first place
Jan 23, 2018 at 8:45pm
Offside front wing profiled back & third skim applied
Profiled back again & fourth skim applied along with the guide coat
Nearside rear wing is now on it's third profiling skim and is quite close to where it needs to be
Started to progress the smaller panels - dashboard & front number plate plinth have had the first profiling skim applied & sanded back - but will need further work yet
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