Finding things ..

[Keith Clements]

I typed my Jowett's registration number NKD258 into some search engines. Google found some interesting links and Bing not many.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/45676495@N05/33994306431
http://www.fluidr.com/photos/45676495@N ... 325/random
http://jowett.org/jowettnet/dt/library/ ... _index.htm
http://jowett.org/jowettnet/dt/magazine/j1-magazine.htm
http://jowett.org/jowettnet/dt/club/j1-welcome.htm
http://www.simonrobertsonphotography.co ... nl6sf7uh2z
http://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/196 ... ion-engine

The latter is the most revealing as this is the thread on RETRORIDES which shows how that forum which uses the same software as JowettTalk is open to Google search engine.

The list above also shows how Google can search jowett.org and the pre-2006 JowettTalk with the magazine article being from 2002. Also note how Google does not need the text 'NKD258' but actually searches the image for text that it recognises with optical character recognition.

You will note that Google currently cannot find anything in the immense Jowett library in the JowettGallery or in the forum JowettTalk. Much of the information in the Gallery and most in the Forum is public but that does not mean it can be found by search engines. Do we want search engines to have access so that the Jowett message is spread wider and you can find things more easily? And, if we do, do we still want restricted spaces where conversations and images remain not searchable and/or also not viewable by the public?

There is this subtle difference between something being viewable by the public and accessible to search engines. The Jowetteer may be viewable by the public in the British Library/ Bradford archive and it is also viewable by club members in its electronic form in the JowettGallery. It might be viewable electronically in the British Library/Bradford archive or may well be in the future. Google can make such snippets in libraries available via its search engine which some publishers allow.

[Srenner]

A double edge sword. Makes it easy to find things, but you give up all kinds of data. Look at the background in the photos inside your shed. Things on walls, car outside on trailer. At least no pictures of you! Accidental or incidental to the main item on the photo, there can be tons of other things that appear that cough up more information than what we first observe..

Putting on my tin-foil hat, anyone anywhere can dissect the data and develop who knows who, who owns what and to some extend, who lives where. Connecting the dots. Collecting info is harmless until someone figures out a way to organize it and use it. Facebook and political data mining is just the tip of the iceberg. And is that in an individual's best interest? I think history shows us that bad actors will misuse information. We are already giving our IP Provider data just by viewing this site.

I usually do not sign in when I visit. I can scan the topics, see what is new, read those that interest me and usually see that pictures that are part of the posts. Correct me if I am wrong, but non--JT surfers can do the same. They just can't get deeper into the site.

I'm comfortable not letting search engines in.

[Keith Clements]

One thing to comfort you is that jowett.net does NOT pass any data it could collect onto anyone, unlike many other websites or platforms such as Facebook or Twitter. Some forums using the same bulletin board software do pass on what could be considered personal data.

Logging on to JowettTalk really makes no difference to some of the data logging that could be done by jowett.net. The system does do some filtering on IP address for instance before you even get into JT. This is to block undesirable sections of the Internet. Logging on has many advantages as it not only allows you to see information restricted to registered users and club members, if you are one, but it also allows you to see what is new since your last visit. You do have control through your User Control Panel as to whether your presence is displayed. You can also read any Private Messages that may have been sent to you. The PM system allows you to carry on a conversation without revealing your email address to the other party. You can also use the search facility.

Your point about image searching is valid which is why you have the option when putting an image in the JowettGallery of making it for public viewing or restricting it to club members from the default which is for registered user viewing only. Note that images attached to posts (not those referenced by a link to the Gallery) are viewable by the public. This is why I recommend using the JT /JG integration features. No images (held by JT or JG) are searchable (as far as I know) by any search engines. Unfortunately very few Internet users take care over images they publish. Not only do they not think about their own privacy but they also disregard that of others. Note that if anyone has an issue and reports it to the webmaster he will try to sort it out and take down the offending post. This has been done on a few occasions already. The good thing about JT and JG is that you have a choice about who you let read or see things by posting in the appropriate place and applying the desired permissions. However, such choice does make the system a bit more complicated.

In addition please realise that great care is taken when vetting users who register, but of course there is little control , apart from subsequently banning them, that can be done if they 'break the rules'. Note that such action has been taken in the past.

Detecting such bad practice is difficult. There is a balance between the envisaged threat and the risk of it happening and the value lost by the potential exploit --- against the cost , time and effort in preventing it. Some feel that the current system is too complex and strict for the users considering the material on the site which is why I am considering changing it.

Yes I am unhappy sometimes when people post pictures of me or my garage on public forums, but that is nothing compared to sharing my contact details from their phone via Facebook. We live in a different world now such that many Jowett owners use Facebook and want to use Google to find things out about Jowetts. So this forum is here for you to express YOUR thoughts.

[Srenner]

Small hi-jack of the thread, but I think I will build a better tin-foil hat.https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... ght-region

[ajackson]

Keith,
I'm with Scott on this topic. As you have things set up now,
I believe you've struck a good balance between accessibility
and a degree of privacy. I'd personally suggest leaving be.

I do not use Facebook; the article linked by Scott is unsurprising.

All the best,
Andy

[Keith Clements]

The positive way of looking at all those capabilities is to look at the benefits. Your bank may well track your spending to try to identify fraud. Knowing if you are doing something different from usual the 'system' could advise you. Think of it as your guardian robot.
The mildly negative way of looking at is that the 'system' is trying to sell you something. This is probably close to the reason most companies use such techniques.
The fully negative way is that big brother is out to get you. The same argument is used against identity cards in the UK, against supermarkets collecting spending habits on cards and passing them onto the tax man, and against the police being able to track mobile phones or movements on CCTV. In general, the techniques are used to protect and help the country's citizens.
I only hope that the operating systems our devices use can selectively block any such collection of data and that we are taught how to do that. When you accept that the Facebook app can use your camera or view your files that should only be for that single file and not forever more. The default should be no access to anything, and access only for the intended purpose of the user. Some hope!

[Keith Clements]

Andy and all,
There are three issues I am struggling with.
1.The need to update the system to accommodate changes in the base level software called php and the forum software called phpbb.
2. The desire to offer a better system for image and other information upload
3. A more integrated searching system allowing pdfs to be searched.

Each of these will require considerable effort to accomplish unless the system is simplified. This is mainly because of the deep integration between the Gallery and the Forum.
To maintain the club members privilege on the system requires cooperation from each club and also a lot of effort on my part. Currently I do not know how many people use this privilege on the forum or in the Gallery so I need to know if you find it useful. An alternative would be to put all club stuff in a separate area and use the JIS login that does not require a username or password. But this would still need maintenance of the club members database . In theory I could offload this maintenance onto the requesting member to get them to ask the membership sec to authorise access but this then puts a load on both of them. This process is followed with new members anyway and with JOAC members but it is far from ideal.
The registered user privilege can also have its issues as I would like to allow a more casual user to get involved with JowettTalk without having to go through my vetting procedure.
There is little evidence that users want to keep their contributions private, either to club members or to only registered users . So some feedback on that would be useful. Should the default be public access for instance or should I not offer the facility?
There is also limited use of the personal album facility so I am looking at improving the attachment upload facility in JowettTalk and dispensing with the Gallery. This would extend the Legacy section and make it more like a WIKI . However, such a system would not have the benefits of the Gallery reorganisation and filing capabilities.