oil pressure gauge

[billatherton]

Hallo,
I,am new to Jowetts so please bear with me,I would
like to fit a mech. oil dial to a Javelin ,in the workshop
book it said for a temp oil reading use the drain plug,may
I fit the sender in the oil light hole which has the oil pressure
device that works the light on the dash ,this would make oil
draining etc. better as I would not need to undo the oil
pipe each time ,I did try a electric gauge but the sender
was to big to fit ,thanks

[Keith Clements]

Hi Bill,

I may have misread...but
The usual ether filled capillary bulb used to measure oil temperature is about 10mm so would not fit in the oil pressure take off.
You could fit another boss into the bottom of the back of the sump to take it, allowing you to use the drain plug as usual.
I have modified the bolt that holds the bypass flexible oil pipe to take an electric resistance sender on my Jav and Jup.
Whilst an oil temperature gauge is useful for competition (and perhaps long motorway journeys at high revs in hot weather) it is unusual for the oil temp to exceed or even get up to working temperature for modern oils. Much better is to have a temperature sender in the drain plug for each head. This will warn you of any impending issues with valves or poor water circulation.
Where the oil temp gauge is good is to tell you when the oil is warm. With the engine so exposed it can be difficult for it to get up to temp with consequent excessive wear on bearings.
I have a thermostatic temperature valve on my oil cooler, no mechanical fan and a thermostatic electric fan on my Jup but it has seen a lot of competition. The Jav has the oil cooler with electric fan which was fitted when I was having heating issues, eventually tracked down to a poorly reconditioned rad, and a thermostatic water radiator fan as it was fitted with no mechanical fan (or fan tube) when I bought it .

If you are asking where to take an oil pressure take off for your gauge then you would need a T piece and adaptor to take the sender. Peter Pfister has this on his Jav.

[David Morris]

Hi Bill,

Welcome to the Club!

I think you mean an oil pressure gauge, instead of a warning light? Early Javelins just had a warning lamp and I think gauges became fitted to all Javelins from about about 1950 onwards.

Assuming you mean an oil pressure gauge, the answer is yes, they can be retro fitted, with one question mark. Have a look at your oil filter body. Is it quite long and usually painted green, or is it quite stubby and usually painted brown? In the case of the former, this means it is a Volks type of filter. I am not sure if you can fit a 'T' piece and gauge pipework to these filter bodies? It's a long time since I saw one? Also, I don't think there are any banjo oil unions on this type of filter casting?

If it's the latter type with a stubby, probably brown, filter casing, then yes, you can fit a gauge and, through a 'T' piece, you can also keep the oil light. However, a note of caution. Look closely at the cast boss on the filter housing where the oil light switch fitting screws into. Jowett's had a field day with various shapes of this casting, known as the Rear Timing Case Cover, although members may, on occasions, call it something less polite! Jowett's had different sizes of oil feed banjo's at the top and side of the casting and also played around with the size of the boss for the oil light switch. Some had really skinny walls, down to around 4mm in radius while others can go up to around 9mm. As this is a taper thread, you can imagine that any over tightening is likely to cause a crack here along the axis of the thread. Oil leaks on Jowett Javelin and Jupiter engines are something we all have to live with, and this is a common leak point. So, go easy here!

On a lighter note, fitting an oil gauge is really the most likely thing to keep you awake at night! With a simple switch, providing it doesn't flicker on and off at tickover ( meaning it is seeing about 6lbs/in ), and the engine doesn't sound as though it is 'thumping', live in blissful ignorance! Once you fit a gauge, you will be constantly looking at it dropping once the engine is warm, worrying about wear and should you contemplate a rebuild? Early Javelins had three warning lights...low oil pressure...no charge and frozen windscreen wipers! Trust me, they got it right!

As a new member, don't hesitate to ask questions. We all like to help, and there probably isn't a question we haven't heard before!

Happy Jowetteering!

David

[billatherton]

Thank You both so much
it is a filter going by the name of
Tecalemit the wording is worn but
I think that about right is that maybe the
factory fit or a after fit ? Sorry it was a Pressure
gauge I was think of fitting ,the tee the gent fitted
was that on the rear timing cover were the device
that works the oil light lives? So leaving both the light
and the new mach. gauge working on the same line as it were ,
Sorry for being slow this is not the same as old cars I
have had before done the Yorkshire way !

[David Morris]

Hi Bill,

Yes, all clear now! The name Tecalemit is probably on a small aluminium plate fixed to the can of the filter? They are still going strong and supply professional garage lubrication equipment. I never knew why their name plate was fixed to the can, but you have correctly identified the filter as the later type. Inside the can, you would discover a replaceable paper element, which I think is an AC32A. I believe this filter is used by cars in the BMC range and should be readily available.

If you want to change the element, you can simply unscrew the holding bolt at the outer end of the can. Before you do this, there is a plug that you can unscrew, or at least loosen, on the driver's side of the casting, that should allow the oil in the can to drain away into the sump. But this screw is very difficult to access, being under the can and many don't bother, just putting up with the mess from the spilled oil. Lots of newspaper under the filter can helps! You will need a new rubber gasket that fits into the recess under the can rim and check the rubber 'O' ring under the head of the retaining bolt.

Many folks have now replaced the whole filter with a 'screw-on' adapter and will then be using a modern screw-on can-type of filter.

You can fit a 'T' piece into the oil pressure take-off port, but remember my previous comments about the weakness of this area? I think you mentioned that you had tried using an electronic oil pressure sender? I had one of these in the past, and I reckon they would be just too bulky to fit onto the Javelin engine?

I should mention that this Rear Timing Cover, with the oil filter as a part of the assembly is, in my view, one of the weakest area of the Javelin engine. Gerald Palmer probably 'designed' this late on a Friday afternoon, just before he was going on holiday! Why on earth did he put the cover against the crankcase block on an angle, and then expected it to remain oil tight? It is held down by two bolts at the far ends of the casting, with five more bolts coming in from the Front Timing case and all these trying to pull the rear cover out of square? With at bit more care, he could have brought the oil ways that run through the casting up to a flat interface plate and then held everything down with four bolts, one at each corner?

This whole area is prone to major oil leaks and needs a lot of respect. If you need any help, please do ask, as many of us have struggled in the past.

All the best,

David

[billatherton]

David,
Thanks for you help .will be
extra careful about the rear timing case cover
we have a leak that needs seeing to about that
place it seems the design team had a bad day
when making that plate make me thing if I may
just trust to luck and that light we will see ,
have a good night cheers Bill

[David Morris]

Bill,

Thanks for your reply. If you are experiencing oil leaks around the base of that rear timing cover, we have a possible solution.

The original Jowett gasket here is prone to leaking. What has usually happened is that over the past 65 years, people try to cure it by over tightening the two holding bolts at the ends of the casting. This only makes things worse. The ends of the casting get warped quite easily and if you use engineers blue on the two faces without a gasket, you will probably see that there is a poor fit against the two mating surfaces. This can be rectified by careful scraping, or what is more commonally known as fitting. I suspect the factory 'hand-selected' rear covers from new, to give the best fit.

Scraping should improve things, but if you want to take a step further, we use a replacement gasket, 0.025" thick and made of aluminium. Holes are drilled in the gasket, and rather than being round, they are opened out by hand to be oval, as that is the shape of a hole serving the 35 degree or so angle of the joint. A certain amount of individual fitting is required, as the position of the oilway holes seems to fluctuate, crankcase to crankcase. The actual oilway holes in the replacement gasket need to be larger than the actual oil ways, as we then fit Vitron 'O' rings into the oilway holes in the gasket. The 'O' rings provide the sealing, the aluminium gasket just being there to support the 'O' rings.

As a newbie to Jowett's, this probably all seems a bit hard core, but there is lots of help out there and we will be able to offer plenty of help, if needed.

All the best,

David

[Forumadmin]

*I have moved this from JowettTalk Tips

[billatherton]

Thanks David ,
Its the next job to try and stop the oil or make
it a lot better ,may I ask must the engine be taken
apart to fit the ali,casket and o rings ,we will try
to blue and scrap it before using the ali casket,
I,am a little bit at sea with these oil leaks some
Jowett owners I have spoken to think it part of
the engine and you have to live with it and others
have told me thats not the case >I,am I right in thinking
we should be able to make it better if not a total cure,
Your and the other gents help has been great with out it
it would have been back to Austins sorry

[David Morris]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your response. Javelins and Jupiters will almost always leak oil from here. How much you can tolerate depends on how frustrated you get with the mess. If you are managing to use a pint in about 200+ miles, then I would leave it alone. If there is always a puddle of oil beneath the engine, and the top of the engine is always dripping with oil, no matter how often you mop it up and oil consumption has dropped to around 50 miles to a pint, then something needs to be done.

I can remember a Jowett Rally, where there were 30 or so Javelins and Jupiter's in a line parked on a slope in the rain. They all faced downhill. In front of every car there was a glossy shimmer of oil on the wet tarmac!

No, you don't need to take the engine out to improve this gasket. However, it will help quite a lot to remove the water pump and dynamo,to clear the decks.

Then you need to remove the two bolts at the ends of the Rear timing Cover (RTC) and the 6 or so smaller bolts running through to the RTC from the front timing case cover. Lift the RTC away and carefully clean up the mating faces on the crankcase, the front timing cover and the RTC. Examine the thread in the crankcase at the ends of where the RTC sits. These can strip and anyway you will probably find the thread has 'lifted' around the holes, causing a burr. Carefully scrape this away.

To help locate everything later, I usually fit a stud ( made from a good 5/16" BSF bolt and cut down ) into the hole on the passenger's side of the engine. This needs to be long enough to 'bottom' in the tapped hole in the crankcase and give a reasonable projection once the RTC is in place. However, before you fit this stud, you need to spread a thin coating of engineer's blue across the top of the crankcase where the RTC fits and trial fit the RTC into position.

Check where the blue 'paints' onto the face of the RTC and scrape the mating faces until you get a good even result with the blue across the whole face of the RTC mating flanges. Don't worry, this requires patience and some time. You will probably find that the 'tips' of the RTC will be proud of the crankcase, as a result of previous attempts to over tighten the two retaining bolts. Relieve these with a fine file.

Once you are happy with the fit of the RTC, have a good look at the 6 or so bolt holes in the front timing case, where the smaller bolts run through and into the front face of the RTC. You need plenty of room here, so gently enlarge these holes by 1-2mm, catching any swafe and crud.

You are then at the decision point as to whether to use the aluminium gasket solution or simply use a new original gasket from Jowett Car Spares (JCS). This is the crunch point. I would say that if you used a new gasket from JCS, then you have about an 80% chance of getting an 'acceptable' seal. You need to use a smear of gasket goo on both sides of the gasket and I use Stag Wellseal, and I do mean a smear! Tighten the end bolt and stud on the ends of the RTC first, and then gently tighten the 6 bolts coming in from the front timing cover. Don't use too much force on these. They are unhelpfully pulling the RTC away from the crankcase, and this is the last thing you need. You will probably need a new paper gasket between the front timing cover and the RTC. This is a crescent shape. I realise the the full gasket for the front timing cover is a quite large gasket, but you only need the top crescent, and a good dollop of gasket goo will sort things out here. You could order a whole gasket from JCS, but I find that some patience, a hole punch and a pencil will draw out the top section of this gasket onto a piece of smooth cardboard. I use a cereal box, like Scotts Porridge Oats, which is good thick cardboard!

You will have probably undone the banjo unions on the transfer oil pipe going across the top of the RTC. Examine this flexible pipe, they can split and leak and you can get leaks from the unions. I recommend that you get some 'Dowty' lip seal washers to use on the unions. Have a look on the internet, they are not very expensive and importantly, they SEAL!

You now stand a good chance of having stopped most of the leaking, but if you want to go down the aluminium gasket route, then we probably need to help. John Airey, a club member, has done several of these gasket conversions and could probably help with a starter aluminium gasket that will need gentle 'personalising' for your engine. I think he also has stocks of the Vitron 'O' rings. We tried ordinary rubber 'O' rings, but they didn't stand up to the heat. During assembly of this gasket, with the 'O' rings inserted, you will appreciate that the stud on one side really helps to hold everything in place when you drop the RTC into place. You still need to give the faces of the crankcase and the RTC a smear of gasket goo. Properly fitted, this revised 'O' ring gasket will STOP the leaks, provided the RTC and the crankcase are really smooth and proven with the engineer's blue.

Best of luck and there is nothing sweeter than the purr of a Javelin engine on full throttle!

Regards,

David

[billatherton]

David ,
Thanks for the sound advice ,I will keep a eye on the leak
to see how it pans out with your figures and if it uses a pint
in the time you said will place a catch paper under it so
the boss will not morn about the drive ,I not used the car
enough to see how much it is losing ,it fills one of the
indents on the engine top in about 20 mins of running
so it is notable but as i said hard to say at this just how much

[David Morris]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, 20 minutes to fill the valley on top of the engine is about what I expected. It is probably the valley on the passenger side? I am assuming you have a RHD car?

Before any spannering, I recommend that you have a look at the oil unions on the bypass hose going across the top of the RTC? Are these weeping? Also, that oil take-off tapping at the bottom passenger side of the RTC is, as I have mentioned already, very prone to developing a crack along the axis of the thread and this may be the cause of your oil leak? If the visible top part of the boss here is only about 3mm thick between the tapping and the edge of the casting, then a crack underneath is very likely. There are lots of spare RTCs around, and I am sure we can help you out if you need a sound spare?

It's hard to get a good look at this, but a small inspection mirror might help?

When I had a bad leak from the RTC gasket, we were driving up from Somerset to the Jowett Rally in Scotland. I must have used around 5L of oil on the way up and we changed the gasket in the Hotel car park when we reached there! Once home, we decided to go for the 'O' ring solution!

Happy Jowettering!

David

[Forumadmin]

David is quite correct in saying find out where it is coming from. A good wash with engine cleaner, drying off and then put blue paper towel around the unions and around the gasket all the way along. Also on the two fixing bolts and the drain bolt. Also the washers on the banjos. Also the filter cylinder rubber gasket. Run the engine for 5 minutes and carefully look at, and then remove, the paper to try to find out exactly where it is leaking.
It can even come up through the join of the two halves of the block, but the most likely is the gasket between the rear timing cover and the passenger side (No 1 cylinder) block. However it may not be the gasket there but the oil pressure union or crack in RTC, so careful investigation is necessary. I have used my high definition endoscope (£15) to verify leaks here.
This shows its use to look inside the bore.

[billatherton]

Thanks Gents ,
A bit to be going on with .it seems
right the look with care for the leak
first