JowettTalk

Hi, I have wondering about the age of my Javelin tyres. As an example one says 'Avon Tourist' and has an oval mark with '5E288 and a triangle' stamped into the rubber. Can anyone help with date codes please? Is this week 28 of 1988 or 1998? Cheers.

Hi Chris,

Probably best to give them a call ,they should be able to advise, UK contact etc below:

European Sales and Customer/Technical Service
Cooper Tire & Rubber Company Europe Ltd
Bath Road
Melksham
Wiltshire
SN12 8AA
United Kingdom

Tel +44 (0)1225 703 101
Fax +44 (0)1225 707 880

If you get the answer on how to work these out please let us all know - there seems to be some confusion on the web information available, though a lot of this is from sites in the US which may be different products and codes.

Regards,

Jack.

Although I can not guide you to the age of your tyres - the best advice regardless of wear / depth of tread etc - is that they are best replaced at 10 years old - rubber degenerates over time and this can lead to blowouts etc - given that they are a big part of what keeps the car on the road it is good advice from the tyre / car manufactures.

I always run with tubes so there is less reliance on casing to provide an airtight seal. Obviously always check tyres before you use the car, and at least every season to make sure there are no bulges, cracks or other deformaties. Storing tyres off the ground over winter and out of the sun in summer also helps.

Tyre quality and speed ratings are of less importance when you are doing less than 65mph and no prolonged motorway driving. A risk judgement should be applied about the life of tyres rather than renewing tyres just because of their age. No doubt there are laws; but should these also apply to the slow, little used cars that we have when running with new inner tubes?

We always rallied on remoulds and never had any problem, even with punishing roads and high speeds.

Forumadmin wrote: We always rallied on remoulds and never had any problem, even with punishing roads and high speeds.

Having seen a tyre literally disintegrated, the damage to the car, the road, and the barriers at the side of the road, there was literally no rubber, just the cord and wire holding it together and a scene of complete carnage.

And that was a 50mph accident, on normal width tyres, driven by a skilled driver.

I don't believe in remoulds.

Jack.

I have seen the same happen to a F1 car! Things happen and are usually manufacturing faults or out of spec usage. Do you know if that tyre was ever driven over its speed rating, at the wrong tyre pressure, or overloaded, over a kerb and did the driver inspect it before he got in? Obviously remoulds are not as good as new top quality brands but they may be better than some new tyres from China. They have also been used for many years and have rigorous safety checks as part of the manufacturing process.

The majority of lorry and aircraft tyres are still remoulded. There are good remoulds and bad ones, just like good new tyres and bad new tyres, usually it is the price you pay that governs the quality. The remoulds we have on the Jups were prepared by the supplier specifically for our rallies.

Im with Jack re using remoulds or as we call them here retreads.
They do have bery low ratings and are not rated for hi performance or track.
As to old tyres...i8n many places tyres older than 7 yrs are illegal, and most manfactures dont recomend older than 7 yrs
Other than abuse..wrong pressures, kurbs etc..the biggest damage is done by exposure to the sun....
One will often see orginal cross plys on a American muscle car at a show....orginal..I mean they are the orginal 60yr+ old tyres....but these cars are trailer queens...or put in once at the show.

Forumadmin wrote:I have seen the same happen to a F1 car! Things happen and are usually manufacturing faults or out of spec usage. Do you know if that tyre was ever driven over its speed rating, at the wrong tyre pressure, or overloaded, over a kerb and did the driver inspect it before he got in? Obviously remoulds are not as good as new top quality brands but they may be better than some new tyres from China. They have also been used for many years and have rigorous safety checks as part of the manufacturing process.

The majority of lorry and aircraft tyres are still remoulded. There are good remoulds and bad ones, just like good new tyres and bad new tyres, usually it is the price you pay that governs the quality. The remoulds we have on the Jups were prepared by the supplier specifically for our rallies.

I think we are fundamentally furiously agreeing here

A brand new good quality tyre is the best option
A high quality remould is ok if done by a skilled person, but not as good as a brand new good quality tyre
A brand new cheap/bad tyre is not very good
A badly remoulded tyre is a death trap
Even a brand new good quality tyre can be abused by its owner in such a way that it is no longer safe

All we have to do now is identify what a good quality tyre is, what a bad quality tyre is, who is skilled in remoulding tyres and who isn't. Unless we can do that, the option most likely to result in a safe outcome is to buy a new good quality tyre from a reputable manufacturer.

You can't really compare F1, where tyres are driven quite literally to their limits, and are now designed to degrade, with a roadgoing car in normal use. It's like comparing Usain Bolt running 100m to me jogging to the shops to buy a paper. Not that I've done that recently

Lorry tyres are designed with remould in mind, and usually paired on an axle, so a catastrophic failure tends to be more of an inconvenience than a danger.
Aircraft tyres are also designed to be remoulded, and the thickness of the rubber and reinforcement in the design is set up for it. They are also subject to very close scrutiny before every single use.

This entire debate reminds me of one we used to do when scuba divers turned up for a fairly advanced course we were running, which opened the door to the an extreme end of the sport - seriously deep wreck diving. We asked them to complete the medical forms, complete the application to complete the course, then write down as accurately as possible how much they considered their life to be worth. Most wrote down a figure somewhere from £10K (a fairly elderly guy who had no dependents, and very few assets) to several million pounds (a successful businessman with a lot of dependents and a couple of businesses that relied on him to succeed, with a huge number of personal assets) - but overall most are surprised at how much money it is once they honestly do the sums and answer the question. Just consider how much money it would take to provide care for a child for the rest of their life to the same standard a parent would, the money spent on them over the years, the insurance payout that would be required to cover the mortgage etc.

Once they have completed the exercise, when we suggest that purchasing a £25 piece of equipment that makes them safer is an instant and easy decision, the £500-£1000 course fee pales into insignificance, and cost becomes a significantly smaller consideration when it comes to safety. And for that reason, where a relatively small difference in cost is involved, and there is a potential increased risk, I will spend the cash and smile knowing I am investing in my own survival, safety and that of others. Within reason.

Ultimately many Jowett owners are driving around in cars without seatbelts, some of them open-top, even on the motorway. There is always a risk. Minimise the risk where practical, and avoid the cost consideration where possible. If somebody asked me after a major blowout at 50mph in a Jowett whether I'd pay £400 every few years for that not to happen again, I'd take their hand off. Anybody that's had a blowout on a busy road at high speed would agree, wouldn't they?

Jack.

There are many other areas on a classic car (or for that matter modern car ) that come into the risk equation. Anyway options for tyres on a Jowett are not great. Perhaps this will generate a discussion on what those options are and the relative risk/cost of each one. Colway and Kingpin are recognised quality remould manufacturers and I have no worries when competing on their products, like many other competitors.

old tyres getting hard and the beaking distance will be much longer...... the softener of the rubber will disapear!!!
no gripp on the road!!!
all other cars got breaking assistace and more helping staff, but your Jowett got only old facion breaks.... so the gripp of you tyres is very , very important.....
peter

Ultimately many Jowett owners are driving around in cars without seatbelts, some of them open-top,

In NZ the seat beat policy, and others goes like this
If there is a seat belt, any person riding in that car has the right to assume the seat belt works and is structually sound...
Therefore we have expemptions for cars that seat belts can not be installed and be structually anochered.
Having seat belt installed in such a case, and if things go wrong, can and will result in at least criminal mansaughter charges.

Any vechilce that has such seat belts fitted will , or should fail a Warrent of fitness check to be on the road
No WoF, one can not registar the car for use on the road.

Tyres
Most manufactures I know of vary in age of tyre use...7 yrs as far as I know is the longest period.
Old tyres shoul be kept for show and display purposes only.

Keith Andrews wrote:

Ultimately many Jowett owners are driving around in cars without seatbelts, some of them open-top,

In NZ the seat beat policy, and others goes like this
If there is a seat belt, any person riding in that car has the right to assume the seat belt works and is structually sound...
Therefore we have expemptions for cars that seat belts can not be installed and be structually anochered.
Having seat belt installed in such a case, and if things go wrong, can and will result in at least criminal mansaughter charges.

Any vechilce that has such seat belts fitted will , or should fail a Warrent of fitness check to be on the road
No WoF, one can not registar the car for use on the road.

Tyres
Most manufactures I know of vary in age of tyre use...7 yrs as far as I know is the longest period.
Old tyres shoul be kept for show and display purposes only.

Hi Keith,

It is the same in the UK - if your car didn't have seatbelts fitted as it came out of the factory you do not need to fit them and can get MOT without.

If, however, you fit seatbelts in a car that didn't originally have them, the MOT tester will check them following their safety guidelines to the letter - no corrosion around the mountings, securely fitted, return mechanism works if it is of that design, pre-tentsioners work and similar.

Lots of Javelins and Jupiters fitted with seatbelts in the UK, and they pass MOT without issue. Not sure if the NZ test is stricter than this when it comes to modifications and adding belts.

Jack.

It is not NZ is stricyer....the esentual issue is
any person riding in that car has the right to assume the seat belt works and is structually sound...
Which is impossble in many old cars...espec a bradford.
Any modification from seat runners to belts etc etc have any changes independantly certified...this ensures that anchor pionts , mechanisims are working, of approved engineeering stds......And this certificate and metal plate on the car must be present to then pass a WoF.
Our WoF is like your MoT a ruotine inspection by a certified inspector...
At the end of the day, there are 'inspectors that make a living out of dicky warrants...even thu they get autided.

But what must be thought thru is this any person riding in that car has the right to assume the seat belt works and is structually sound... concept.

my "Rhowina" Javelin from NZ with valid WOW ! got seat belt, two point seatbelt, and one strong point were fixt in the floor wood WOW by odometer 98790 now reading 98860

the car was inspected 5 times with the seat belt.... and the strong point were clearly visible fixt in the wooden floor panel......

now i got it out

"any person riding in that car has the rigth to assume the seat belt works and is structually sound........ "

peter

p.p. wrote:my "Rhowina" Javelin from NZ with valid WOW ! got seat belt, two point seatbelt, and one strong point were fixt in the floor wood WOW by odometer 98790 now reading 98860

the car was inspected 5 times with the seat belt.... and the strong point were clearly visible fixt in the wooden floor panel......

now i got it out

"any person riding in that car has the rigth to assume the seat belt works and is structually sound........ "

peter

It is possible however that the previous owner removed the seatbelts for each inspection. You certainly wouldn't get a car through a thorough MOT with seatbelts bolted through a wooden floorboard, and I doubt NZ would allow it either. Or it could be a slightly "friendly" tester...

Jack.