JowettTalk

Hi All,

I've just bought a 1952 project Javelin, haven't got it back home yet - but looking forward to it.

There's loads of spares with the car which I will probably be parting out [ engine, box, axle ] - but also loads of parts that I will inevitably need as the car is almost completely stripped.

The owner assures me all the essential parts are there, but past experience dictates otherwise ! Certainly it is missing window rubber seals [ although glass is intact ], headlining and a door card or two !

I come from a lifetime [ 3 score and 10 approaching ] of "tinkering". For my day job I was involved in the design, manufacture and sales of Replica Sportscars [ Jag, Porsche, Cobra ] and speciality cars for race and road. Ditto with bikes - although I never turned that into a business. I still conduct design engineering consultancy work for a couple of former business associates - one in Germany and the other here in the UK.

I recently acquired a Rover P4 fitted with a 200TDI engine. The idea was for inexpensive, troublefree motoring - which the Rover will fit the bill. Having just paid out £260 for a year's road tax for my daily drive Citroen C5 estate - I've decided enough is enough. Similarly, I suggested to my Wife that her Celica GT should be replaced by a tax exempt Scimitar GTE ! Still working on that one.

So - the Javelin. I've always admired the style [ 40's Americana ] and the undoubted merits of the mechanical design, and on several occassions in my Hot Rodding past, have cast more than a curious eye over the Javelin.

Uh oh .... those dreaded words - Hot Rodding !

Due to the undoubted shortfall of original parts I am contemplating a mild upgrade - keeping the external styling as stock as possible - a "Resto-Rod".

Another reason for this train of thought is that the car will spend a lot of it's time in Germany and it fits [ tax / MOT exempt ] in well with the German "Historische" theme and is thus allowed access to City centres. I could no doubt argue the point as it will be on UK plates, but the pre- 1960 status will exempt it anyway. Certain mods will be most beneficial out there and I will be looking at disc front brakes amongst other upgrades.

Nothing cast in stone yet and a direction will become clear once I have my hands on the project and a chance to assess it properly.

Welcome. A starter for 10 on disc brakes, at least gives you some ideas, though seems nobody has yet managed it. http://www.jowett.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1666

Get some photos up if you can, and we can see where you are starting from.

Jack.

Thanx for the welcome Jack ..... seems like they're all still harrumphing and bristling moustaches on the Rover Forum after I posted my mods for the P4 !!!

The old Hot Rodder in me is screaming V8 - or maybe Alloy V6, always wanted to do something with an old V6 Alfa. Scooby makes good sense, but doesn't have the presence of a V8.

As for disc brakes, the best way to go would be a complete hub / axle swap. Then maybe you're into a front beam .............................

None of that is a problem as long as you have access to some parts for checking. As per my intro - I've spent the past 45 + years earning a living designing and manufacturing replica sports, race cars, etc., so no probs for the design and safety aspect.

MY problem is lack of any suitable workshop facilities since I retired [ 3000 sq. ft. ! ], AND I am a designer not a craftsman [ welding, turning, etc. ] so any work takes time and has to be farmed out [ welding, etc.]

Eventually I will have to temper my Hot Rod enthusiasm with some common sense ..... probably

here's a couple I made earlier

Hello, and welcome to JowettTalk from the opposite end of the power curve - I'm into the 7hp/17bhp Jowetts!

There won't be much harrumphing and bristling moustaches on this Forum, but you might, just, get slapped with a flat hat, or Deerstalker if you have the Javelin.
Joking aside, you'll have a good time on here as there are many members steeped in engineering knowledge as well as enthusiasm, and good advice is free.

We would all like to know your name, if you don't mind. Most of us use proper names, and if you wish to change your moniker, a quick email to Forumadmin will sort that out.

Regards,

Tony.

Tony Fearn wrote:Hello, and welcome to JowettTalk from the opposite end of the power curve - I'm into the 7hp/17bhp Jowetts!

There won't be much harrumphing and bristling moustaches on this Forum, but you might, just, get slapped with a flat hat, or Deerstalker if you have the Javelin.
Joking aside, you'll have a good time on here as there are many members steeped in engineering knowledge as well as enthusiasm, and good advice is free.

We would all like to know your name, if you don't mind. Most of us use proper names, and if you wish to change your moniker, a quick email to Forumadmin will sort that out.

Regards,

Tony.

No, the tone on this forum is completely different to that on the Rover forum. Supercilious and arrogant comes to mind, with delusions of grandeur thrown in for good measure. HOWEVER, as with most one make forums, there is some useful information to be had - short cutting years of research.

I actually admire all forms of the hobby, from purist restorations through running "upgrades", to full on major mods.

My days of 7 second / 180mph 1/4 mile passes are well past, as are my days on race circuits on 2,3 and 4 wheels. That's not to say I still don't enjoy the odd "thrash" - but family considerations and self preservation kick in these days.

No problem with the "proper" name ....... it's TJ . Now that might not seem a proper name, but it's what I've been known as throughout my life and in business. Feel free to use it.

Doesn't seem to be any provision for a "profile" ???? WELL OF COURSE THERE IS - RTFM.I've actually bought the Javelin JCJ 671 [ sight unseen - ooops ], but cheap enough that it doesn't really matter as from the pix and description I more than have my money's worth. There'll be a rake of spares to sell off to offset the purchase price.

It is possible that I might go for another in good running condition [ as an addition, not instead of ] as I rather like the idea of not paying road tax, not having to succumb to MOT's every year [ although I have a tame MOT guy that checks my cars over anyway ], and relatively cheap insurance.

Here's a couple of the "day job" cars. Gullwing is a project I've been working on for a German pal, and the C Type for an old English pal of some 4 years standing. Both seen at the Goodwood Event.

Tried to reset the username .......... doesn't seem to want to play, so I've added it to signature.

TJ (etc):-
Harrumphing? Arrogant? Supercilious? These are words I have never heard in Jowett circles (well not to my face anyway!).

Welcome aboard. When you have time, try to get to grips with the Gallery as you will find loads of useful pictures, technical data and helpful hints like 'Don't try this!'

You have a captive audience here - and not just those of us that may choose to actually respond to your posts, so keep us all informed of progress.

Any risk of you coming to Basingstoke (with or without a Jowett, you will be very welcome).

DON'T SELL OFF THE SPARE BITS YET!! I am reminded of a short poem I heard many years ago: -

The gift my great=aunt gave to me
I raved about and vaunted.

You see t'was exactly what I needed
to exchange for what I wanted.

Swapping can be so much more rewarding than buying and selling.

TJ - Welcome - much like you I am into all sorts of things with my classics - future project will be my Jupiter Bitza which has been brought together as a kit of parts so far from 7 different cars - the purists are not going to like it - but it will be one more Jupiter on the road and I am building for myself and not for the purists - good luck with the Javelin (Is that the yellow one in bits that got withdrawn from E Bay this week ? ) - we are just doing a bare metal restoration on one (see early Javelin restoration - under the Javelin section) so any questions on how to / or where can I get this from - just post on here and one of us will come back with an answer / reply for you.

Regards

Chris

Ian / Chris thanx for the warm welcome.

Chris, know where you're coming from with the Jupiter - we had the same thing with a C Type and a GT40 we built way back. Funny thing is that now I'm involved [ design consultancy ] with C Types [ replicas ] and there is a universal acceptance within the Jaguar fraternity. Even when I recently redesigned the front chassis and squeezed in a Blown V8 jag lump !

I had 20 magical years dealing direct with Carroll Shelby on our [ RAM ] Cobra replicas, which he gave his personal endorsement to ! No elitism there.

Ian, see notes re: harrumphing ............ There will be many spare, spares [ doubles ] and in keeping with my reycling phylosophy - I would rather pass OEM parts on to those who can use them [ see PVR V6 note ]. However, that said , I do like the sentiments of your poem, and may well own a "real" / unmolested [ 'ish ] Javelin at some future point.

Believe me the remarks directed at the Rover Club are well deserved ! Ditto the "BMW UK [Official no less] Club", which despite it's ambiguous title, is for bikes. According to themselves [ both clubs ] - their car / bike is the best ever produced and anything else is, well - not the best. I spend many a happy hour winding them up with tales of my Rods and Mods.


I already feel at home here with what seems to be a laissez faire attitude towards your chosen marque.

This is not the first time I have seriously looked at the Javelin as a base for "something" - as a long time afficianado [ and made a living with ] American Muscle cars and Rods - the body style has always reminded me of some of the iconic US cars of the 40's. I have to say, that as a design engineer - the engine also intrigues me ! It would not be beyond the realms of possibility that an OEM original car with period Competition upgrades won't find itself in my stable in the future !

Just as a backgrounder - ALL my hobbies are now paid for by my government pocket money [ £90 / week ] and what I can sell on E-Bay ! All my spare stash went into buying a 9 bedroomed Villa in Saxony Before anyone runs away with the idea I'm a rich kid - the villa was bought for the price of a secondhand car 10 years ago when property was almost being given away in the former DDR [ near Dresden ].

So why all the projects given no workshop and essentially no money ? It's an age thing - my body has passed 3 score and 10 on this Earth - but my soul is still only 30-40 years old !

"One last fling" went a bit wild and now it's several "one last flings" - in a vehicular sense you understand [ happily married for the 3 rd time for the past 32 years ]. The idea was to gather as many donors as and when they came available for the right price - then cull the non starters [ project wise ] and gradually build what was left.

I've cut down to 3 bikes now [ BMW Kay Streetfighter, Yamaha 1000 Vee twin Cafe Racer and a Kawasaki KZ750T Flat Tracker ] all will be finished by next Summer.

Not quite sure where the desire to build more cars came from - probably being shafted for £260 a year for road tax for my Citroen C5 Estate daily driver ! That's where th P4 [ "Nelson" ] came in, and will replace the C5 when it's finished - next Spring ? Just missed MOT exemption [ 1960 ].

That's when I came back round to the Javelin - well not directly ! I was looking for a pre-1960 ANYTHING to take to Saxony as with the MOT / Tax exemption I would only have to worry about insurance [ Classic anyway ]. Pre 1960 also fits in nicely with the German Historische requirements, which amongst other benefits means you can drive in the Cities.

I looked at [ and discarded very quickly ] early Landies, Triumph Herald / Vitesse, A30, Moggy Minors, Standard 10 .......... you get the picture - unloved "classics" [ = cheap ].

Then I spotted the Grey car [ E-Bay ], but realised it was going to go for more than I wanted to pay -AND still needed a load of work to get it useable.

However the seed was sown - so I contacted the seller of the Caermarthen car - he was so angry at being let down TWICE by E-bay buyers [ after the deal was done ] he had already advertised it locally for around the start price.

Long story short - he removed it from the E-Bay auction and I bought it through the local ad. ............... Simples

So - thinking aloud, I may well sell Nelson, or the C5 and look for a good running Javelin next year.

As for the Yellow Peril ...................it WILL be Rodded. Resto Rod exterior, with a practical engine / box just to give it a little ooomph, and with the relevant brake, suspension upgrades. despite appearances, it has had most of the repair work [ chassis / panels] done

In fact I looked at Rover V8s for power, but in reality they are NOT very powerful and are becoming silly expensive. Having owned a couple of Alpine Renaults [ GTA Turbo ] AND always had at least one Renault / Citroen as a daily driver - I do like the PVR engine [ alloy V6 ]. In the Alpine it produced 170 mph top end with 5.9sec 0 - 60. Yes it was a light slippery car, but STILL returned 28 mpg overall. Parts were cheap [ Renault / Volvo / Peugeot parts bins ]. Similar configuration used in the Renault 25 [?] Turbo

SO, scanning through the current Classic Car mags I spotted a Volvo V6 engine / box [ front engine RWD version ] with spares in good running order for £50 !!!!!!!!!! Kerching. When I phoned the seller up, he said he'd had it advertised for months [ he put wrong info in his ad ! ] and without prompting said he'd take £35 for the lot - double kerching.

Bit of a ramble there I'm afraid - but at least you know who I am and what I'm about.

Help required - if anyone has access to an empty Javelin engine bay, I could do with the following dimensions please -

maximum width at crankshaft level between chassis rails / inner flitches [ whichever comes first ! ]
Height from same point to underside of the bonnet.
length of engine / bay from front of engine to gearbox bellhousing.

IOW, I need to know the space I have to play with for an engine transplant ! Obviously this will become clear once the Yellow Peril is safely back home, but just trying to get a jump on the game.

Not so much the engine - the PVR V6 engine is very compact - essentially a 24" cube - it's mainly the clearance above the intake - ie is there room for a top mounted eaton Blower

Many thanx

TJ

TJ - Our national rally is on the 25th / 26th May in Basingstoke - you might find it very useful if you could pay a visit - let me know if you require further details.

I think it is good to see someone modify a Javelin, as there are too many rusting away waiting for a restorer to come along. I also feel when you complete it & drive it , it may attract the attention of younger potential enthusiast . I love both Rods & restoration, always have, & am planning a rest rod for the future. I wouldn't use a V6 would prefer Subaru Flat four, keeping in Jowett tradition, but each to their own.
My own children don't like Jowetts(or any old car) but when I got them to paint one on photo shop & put mag wheels on , their attitude improved.

Chris Spencer wrote:TJ - Our national rally is on the 25th / 26th May in Basingstoke - you might find it very useful if you could pay a visit - let me know if you require further details.

Chris,

many thanx for the invite - of course the Yellow peril won't be there [ 2014 / 15 ? ].

That said, that is the weekend of my Wife's sisters' [ er yes, that would be my sister in law I guess ] 50th birthday celebrations. Hmmmmmmm, don't think I could get away with that one, but thanx anyway. Any more coming up this year ?

David,

yes agree entirely - rather Rodded than crushed or sold for number and crushed !

Yes again - the Scooby makes perfect sense, but having owned one [ estate ] I can't say I was overimpressed. A 4WD would be an interesting excercise - we once built a 4WD Cobra replica with Cossie running gear.

However, I'm an old school Rodder, brought up on big V8's. It's the "presence" of the engine which I'm looking for. Not to mention the sound. The PVR engine is an odd fire V6 - originally planned as a V8. It will make the same sort of noises as a Chevy / Rover, as opposed to a Ford [ even fire ].

The PVR is an all alloy 90 degree motor, which looks quite good anyway. That's not so much of a challenge as the disc brake conversion on the front. As a last resort I could probably swap in a complete beam from "something else", but I'd like to keep as much original as viable. Additionally an early Volvo rear axle is both narrow AND has discs as standard. The hubs would benefit from a change in order to make wheel selection easier - 6" x 15" and 8" x 15" Minilites, or maybe American Racing Equipment 5 spokes ?

Having now read some of the history of the car, I can see how it arrived so high off the ground [ ground clearance ] ! That is easily and quickly sorted.

If you look at the posts "my daughters view of a Javelin" or "My Sons view of a Javelin" you will have a Mag wheel picture of a Javelin. I like the % spoke.

David Kemp wrote:If you look at the posts "my daughters view of a Javelin" or "My Sons view of a Javelin" you will have a Mag wheel picture of a Javelin. I like the % spoke.

David - original computer dummy here - where should I be looking ?