Help needed to identify engine

[Andrew Henshall]

Is this what I think it is: industrial version of a 7 hp Jowett using Wico magneto ignition? Engine no: 353686, which would be 1933 build.

More photos in next post.

[Andrew Henshall]

[Andrew Henshall]

It's not a pre-war 7 hp engine, but I don't think it's a Bradford intake manifold either, although I am not an expert on Bradfords. HELP!!!!

Cheers,

Andrew

[Jack]

I can't help other than that is not a CC Bradford intake manifold (I've not noticed the CA or CB being different) - the carb is on top centre of the Bradford intake and the water hose (assuming that is a water hose) is offset on the Bradford engine.

Jack.

[David Morris]

Hi Andrew, From the photos, this engine look exactly like my war-time Jowett stationary engine. The carburettor is under slung beneath the inlet manifold, so it becomes an up draught carburettor. The ignition is by magneto, housed within that light aluminium housing. The plug leads were screened, just like yours. Unusually for these engines, there is a bypass oil filter, using a metal can type of filter housing.
My engine is in a frame and drives a 120v DC generator.However, I know that these engines were used to drive a whole load of requirements for the War Office. I have one which has a MASSIVE flywheel, driving a multi-veebelt assembly which I believe ran a saw bench.

Hope you have fun with the engine!

David

[Tony Fearn]

There you are Andrew.
I knew someone would be able to help.
Will get to the shock absorber queries hopefully next week when I've finished the cylinder head gasket problem on the 'Flying Fox'.
Tony.

[Andrew Henshall]

Hi Andrew, From the photos, this engine look exactly like my war-time Jowett stationary engine. David

Thanks for the info David; can you provide the engine number on your engine please so I can compare it to the engine number on the "red" engine (353686)?

I am confused by the fact that the engine number 353686 is in the sequence for the 1933 7 hp cars, yet these war production engines were built 1939 - 1945. Could we be misinterpreting the engine number and it is actually a 1943 build engine?

Referring to the JCL publication "War Production Record", there were both 4 kW (5.5 hp) and 5 kW (6.7 hp) versions of the Generating sets, plus 1,762 2-cyl engines of unspecified output as well. Not sure how I determine which version the "red" engine is. Presumably these were all water cooled, as the air cooled versions are listed separately in the JCL publication.

Is the output flange on your generator set exactly the same configuration as the one in my photos?

Any chance you could upload a photo or two of your gen set?

Best regards,

Andrew

[Andrew Henshall]

I can't help other than that is not a CC Bradford intake manifold (I've not noticed the CA or CB being different) Jack.

Thanks Jack, I too compared the intake manifold on the "red" engine to a photo I had of a CC Bradford engine, and saw that it was not the same in many ways. I don't have a photo of a CB engine, and there are no CA Bradfords in Australia as far as we are aware. It is very different to the intake manifold on my 1936 7 hp engine. Is it perhaps unique to the war production stationary engines?

The cylinder head has a flat form unlike the "bulge" that the heads on my 1936 engine display, so it is much more like a Bradford engine in this regard. The Bradford heads I've seen all have a large screw-in plug with screwdriver slot just below the spark plug recess, but the heads on the "red" engine don't have this feature. Very confusing to me as a "non-Bradford" person.

Cheers,

Andrew H

[ian Howell]

Could that leading '3' indicate 1943? Then this would be engine number 53686 which looks about right for that year.

I had a similar engine some years ago and that too had a massive flywheel with Vee and flat pulleys and which also incorporated a centrifugal clutch - again possibly to allow starting 'on load' such as a sawbwnch as suggested earlier.

Does it work yet?

[Chris Spencer]

All very interesting - I own 353818 which is only 132 numbers on from Andrew's engine and from a first look they are identical - images below

- Apparently it did run several years ago - I will in time get it running and providing it runs well give it a cosmetic restoration with a new trolley / radiator & fuel tank (old one is non original and leaks) - apparently the fuel tanks were more of a oblong with radius corners - I will see what I can pick up from the auto jumbles but if not I will have to make one - I don't think the rad is original either - I have had a rough measure up and a Javelin rad would be well suited - I have several other projects to complete first so it is in storage for the present time being.

[Andrew Henshall]

Thanks Chris,

I found a video of an identical unit on YouTube being started by a gent wearing a beard. While I do sport a beard, it wasn't me!

The engine in question had two "hot-dog" resonators, one in each exhaust; ie. one per cylinder - totally separate - it sounded very sporty!

Don't know if the "red" engine runs yet, but I will find out.

Andrew

[ian Howell]

Chris (et al - again, he gets everywhere!): -

My stationery engine had a tank as you describe, made of brass, rectangular with rounded corners and flat ends with soldered 'lips', and an integral fuel contents guage on the top face secured by - I think - three set screws (possibly four).

The bezel for the guage was turned from solid brass so I guess it was a bespoke item rather than a proprietory unit (from Smiths?) perhaps.

The tank was the full width of the angle iron frame that the engine was mounted in and rather taller than it was 'thick', either way about 9 inches.

Some quick calculations show a capacity of 4 - 5 gallons, probably a reasonable guestimate.

With regard to the radiator, if is not original it must? have been for a flat-twin or possibly flat-four engine as it has an outlet at both bottom corners. Is anyone aware of other (non-Jowett) engines of this configuration and vintage? Panhards were all air cooled I think but what about Bristol tractors ?

It is interesting that with the various stationery engines that have turned upon this forum, there appear to be a number of variations. Do the war-time factory records provide details of these variants?

Question for our Registrar - how many are listed 'in the club and are they identified by model type or application'?

[Andrew Henshall]

The JCL publication lists the following items: (no further details provided)

4 kW Engines and Generating Sets with spares 1,451 units
5 kW Engines and Generating Sets with spares 855 units
2 cyl Engines with spares 1,762 units
2 cyl Engines and Generating Sets with spares for the Admiralty 200 units
2.75 kVA Air cooled Engines and Generating Sets 1,050 units
4 cyl Engines 50 units
2.75 kVA Air cooled Engines 150 units
2.75 kVA Air cooled Generating Set Assemblies with spares 35,493 units

Cheers,

Andrew

[David Kemp]

Anyone own an air cooled engine? Or have a photo?
Must be the rarest Jowett.

[george garside]

the ''3'' indicates 1943 the sequence starting with '0' for 1940 ( a sample 1940 engine number being 051274

The cylinders and heads are similar to those introduced for 1940 model year cars in Aug 1939 wich in turn were more or less the same as CA/ b Bradfords ( the 1940 cars had alloy heads with plug facing outwards towards the inner wing)

The induction pipe to pot joint is the same 4 stud type as introduced in 1940 and continued on CA/CB Bradfords.

The induction pipe is however completely different in that ,whilst similar to the CB Bradford it had the carb attached below i.e. an updraft carb presumably used to prevent or reduce the chance of flooding.

A similar (maybe identical?) 'updraft induction pipe was also used on Jowett engine Bristol tractors , initialy with 2 stud fixing as on 1930's cars and then with aforementioned 4 stud fixing

george