Javelin on Gumtree

[NickHall]

This has just been posted today on Gumtree

https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-cars/19 ... 1319748679

[Keith Clements]

Welcome Nick.
As the seller says he is testing the market. Value really depends on condition of the bits you cannot see.
A few more photos particularly of the interior and underside would get us closer to seeing if it is worth a look.
The chassis looks like it may have been cleaned and red leaded, so the important welding MAY have been done.
Interior looks far gone but might have enough there to be re-upholstered.
The engine blocks seem to have some meat and the gearbox looks unusually clean!

[NickHall]

Thanks Keith. I am on the look out for a Javelin in time but had better learn to walk before running. I have a huge amount to learn first. I know a fair bit about landrovers and seagull outboards but next to nothing about Jowetts at the moment and it will be a very steep learning curve. You don't happen to know what the Javelin went for at Mathewsons do you? Its pretty much just up the road for me but I could not get to the auction. The bodywork on the one on Gumtree looks quite promising but as you say its difficult to assess the rest of it from the photos. It would be too much of a leap into the unknown for me anyway.

[Nick Webster]

Hello Nick and welcome to the club.

The Javelin on Gumtree has been up for discussion before on this Forum in August 2017. I think then its registration was unknown, but photos confirm it is definitely the same car. It had been standing outside for many years and was being supported by quite a lot of brambles. I cannot find the car number listed in Javelin Registers I have back to 1985, so that remains unknown. Whether this is the same owner as was back in 2017 I do not know. Several Javelins requiring not just extensive rebuilds but miracle rebuilds are doing the rounds being re-advertised periodically by a succession of dealers anxious to make a buck or two out of the classic car market. While the prices keep rising, frequently very little changes with the cars. It is a bit like pass the parcel with the last one being lumbered with it. It is all very sad.

As the Irish would say, "If that is where you want to go, don't start from here". By that I mean, if you are unfamiliar with the Javelin, a dismantled specimen would be a very poor choice to buy. They are a very complex car. Frequently I hear assertions from car enthusiasts that it has a separate chassis but this is not the case. Unlike many 40s & 50s cars, you cannot take the body off and repair the forth bridge underneath. The metal is thick and weldable but just have a look what was involved with some the restorations Keith has recorded for posterity on this forum. And he knows where everything goes! (I think).

As far as I am aware the Javelin at Matthewsons did not sell. However I am pretty sure it was advertised in the latest Jowetteer - offers on £6000. After this it was tagged as sold on the Mathewson's site. I am not sure if it was a private auction entry or It may have been in their associated museum collection. My Son in Law lives not far away and went to inspect it at my behest and reported that although it was relatively original inside and fairly smart outside it had some repairs done on the frame with quite a bit more required in the very near future if it is to comply with the roadworthyness condition as a requirement for MOT expemption. I have now examined a number of cars that are very disappointing in this respect.

Obviously, try and make contact with your local section and have a look at some cars on the road. For Pete's sake bide your time.

Hope this is of help

Nick Webster

[NickHall]

Thanks Nick for your advice. I certainly will bide my time and am more than happy to wait for as long as it takes. I would take a punt on a knackered series landrover which is basically just a meccano kit but wouldn't dare do so with a Javelin. I suspect that the old adage of buying the best you can afford is as true for javelins as for other more complex cars. Thanks again. Nick

[Nick Webster]

I'm nearly cured of Land Roveritis now - used to have four but down to just one TD5 Defender and a derelict Series 2. Wish I had kept the Series 1 that I completely restored in the 1980s.

Nick

[NickHall]

I still miss my Series 3 and was thinking of taking on a series 2 restoration with my son who wants to be an engineer. Prices are just too high now, even for rubbish. I still have my Range Rover P38 with the 2.5 BMW engine which, with the exception of the electrics, has served me very well. I see that another Javelin has been listed on the Car and Classic website and its nearby...

[Nick Webster]

I have just looked at the car you mention. A curious case this one. One of the cars that as I said before keeps coming around. It has previously been adverised for sale three times since March 2017, selling twice and one no sale on Ebay. Curiously though, bucking the trend, the price seems to be falling all the time - this despite the vendors giving an encouraging story of what has been done to the car. I have a funny feeling the registration number may be non transferable, which happens when a vehicle regains a number once lost. It shows with DVLA as registered in 1989. If it was transferable I would have expected it to have gone by now. In general, registration transfer is one of the things inflating classic car prices. The JCC register lists it as a deluxe. However the plain paint window surrounds and the seats without arm rests would suggest that it is a Standard model that has been fitted with a deluxe dashboard which is a not uncommon modification. Alternatively the seats may have been changed, which is something else that it relatively common given the wear and tear they get. Standard seats could be leather or Vinyl. I cannot quite make out what the material is from the photos. Vinyl is now quite rare since it did not last well. The only sure way is to check the body plate. If it has a "D" after the number it is a Deluxe. If nothing then it is a Standard. They were not stamped "S". Incidentally the car number is also stamped into the body at the top of the grille, just by the peg for the bonnet latch. You may not see this due to paint thickness.

If it is local it could be worth a look, just get some practice! What really matters is the state of the frame near the pivot for the rear suspension radius arms, the arms themselves, the jacking point out riggers and to a lesser extent the A and C post out riggers. The frame rusts underneath the thin front extentions that support the engine and in bad cases this will extend back to the lower front suspension arm mountings. Check for rust holes near the bonnet hinges and under the inner wings above either side of the engine. That is not all of course, but they are indicative of an even greater can of worms. If the items I have listed are not right then there is little point in going into greater detail because most of them would be an MOT failure if it was submitted for one.

I have sent you a private message.

Nick

[Chris Spencer]

The project it's self is way overpriced - has stated the Javelin is a complex structure and this example appears to require a lot a work - typically vendors look at what good examples of the model are valued at and base their project prices on a scale of what good roadworthy examples are in the market - in doing so they unrealistically & consistently underestimate the amount of work & materials that require to be expended on project cars in order to return them to the road - the example in question on Gumtree I would value at £750 - it's simply not worth anymore than that - better starting points are to be had in the market for example


This 1952 Javelin - running & on the road but requires improvement priced at £3,750 - here is a opportunity to run & improve a basically solid car - link below

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1052273

or this 1949 Javelin - said to be in good condition - priced at £7,500 - link below

https://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/jo ... lin/280696

Either of these two are far better economical option to Javelin ownership than any rusty project car